I first came across Dan Neuffer, the author of the ANS Rewire Program, in 2012 after watching some of the videos on his CFS Unravelled YouTube channel. At the time, I had been desperately ill for almost 5 years and wasn’t getting any helpful response from my doctors. They just didn’t seem to know what was wrong with me. I checked out Dan’s CFS Unravelled website, read his free e-Book Discover Hope, and sent him an email to thank him for putting the information out there.
I can’t find a copy of the email I sent, but I do have his lengthy reply which indicates that I mentioned that I felt angry when I read his. Perhaps there were too many stories of shiny happy people who had got their lives back, while I was still in misery. He apologised, saying that he was passionate about helping people. It seemed that his intention was to help as many people as possible recover because he knew what it was like to be stuck suffering with CFS. In my skepticism, I had asked him for a one-paragraph summary answer to the question: “What causes CFS?”, to make sure he wasn’t just another new age nutjob. His reply was this:
“It’s an autonomic nervous system dysfunction that creates secondary dysfunctions, some of which directly feedback to the autonomic nervous system. There are many other people around the world who have recognised this over the last 50 years but I feel most only address part of the big picture. You may have heard that some people suggest an overactive sympathetic nervous system or fight or flight response. I feel this only part of the picture and a little simplistic. I believe that parasympathetic dominance is equally the problem. So it’s not an issue of dominance, but an issue of regulation which is why treatments and strategies to support either system often don’t work (i.e. hormone replacement, meditation, various talking therapies, nutritional support for the catecholamines, or even support for biochemical pathways such as methylation which are involved in the break down of catecholamines as well as many others). Further, the way this dysfunction is created and triggered is different in all of us (I can list numerous triggers), although there are some triggers that are very common or even always there! So the key is a comprehensive approach that is tailored and addresses the specific personal triggers”
This sounded fair enough to me. I took up Dan’s offer of a chat via Skype where we talked for about an hour which he didn’t charge me for. It was good to connect with Dan because I was an engineer and he is a scientist with a similarly analytical mind, he knew the territory, and had recovered. It appeared to me that Dan was talking to everyone he could to share what he discovered in his recovery, for free. By coincidence, it turned out that Dan had gone to my high school, just a few years after me. He wasn’t just out to make money and definitely seemed to be the real deal.
I bought Dan’s book CFS Unravelled which elaborates on his hypothesis and suggested recovery strategy, and implemented as many of the diet, lifestyle and supplementation ideas it contained as I could. He sent me a free hardcopy a couple of years later when he updated it. If you’re curious about ANS Rewire but concerned about the cost, reading CFS Unravelled first to see if his theory resonates with you is a low-risk starting point.
Unfortunately for me I can’t say it made much difference to my symptoms, but in hindsight this is probably because the underlying condition causing my CFS symptoms is severe sleep apnea, and my diagnosis for that was still seven years away.
I struggled on with life for a couple more years as documented on this blog, visiting the odd doctor here and there, none of whom appeared to have any clues about what was really wrong with me. I knocked back the prescriptions of anti-depressants because I was convinced that depression wasn’t the cause of my malaise, which was obviously physical. I was highly motivated but just didn’t have the energy to do anything involving physical exertion; it simply left me exhausted every time.
During this time Dan created and launched the ANS Rewire program. I procrastinated on joining up for a long time because I didn’t want to spend the money, and wondered if it really contained anything that CFS Unravelled hadn’t already said. I’d already tried The Gupta Program without any great results, so I was hesitant about spending any more money on fringe mind/body, diet and lifestyle programs with no hard scientific evidence to back them up.
On the other hand, I still felt terrible every day and wasn’t getting any useful answers from the conventional evidence-based medicine doctors I was seeing, nor the alternative medicine crowd. The formal graded exercise program at a local university fatigue clinic was on my list of things to try but I just couldn’t see how graded exercise would work any better than my informal attempts and I’d already had years of talking therapy to no avail. Doctors are not magicians, I’m not an idiot, and my post-exertional malaise was real. One of the doctors I saw suggested that what I needed was to hit the gym and get a hot girlfriend: “That’ll get you out of bed”, he said. In response, I tried running short distances along the beach a few times and felt like I was going to die. What a moron.
In August 2018 I watched the free ANS Rewire introductory videos, and thought the whole thing sounded plausible. A month later in the middle of yet another blinding headache I thought: “I can’t keep living like this. Fuck this shit”, got out my credit card and signed up to the ANS Rewire program.
The ANS Rewire program consists of 42 major educational videos averaging about 45 minutes each explaining Dan’s hypothesis of the cause of the illness along with suggested actions for recovery. There are also extended recovery interviews; meditations delivered on CD; diet, lifestyle and supplementation information sheets; and short “recovery snippet” videos to help keep you motivated. There’s no online forum as such, but you can interact with other people using the program via the comments on each video and information resource page. He encourages you to post about your progress to help motivate each other and keep coming back to the site so that you stick with the program.
I bought a 128 page exercise book where I made extensive notes and tracked my progress. I watched one video each day for the first few weeks on the schedule Dan suggested, taking breaks whenever he said to and revisiting previous videos as recommend. I only ever watched one video a day at most, since the focus is on taking action rather than on watching videos. Merely watching videos isn’t likely to make you well. It took about three months to view all the videos in the program, interviews, recovery snippets, and read all the downloadable diet and lifestyle sheets. It’s important to break all patterns that activate the autonomic nervous system, so taking your time and not rushing through the program, is effectively part of the program.
I did the daily meditations using the CD’s shipped with ANS Rewire, and started doing the R.E.W.I.R.E technique when it was presented in video 14. While this technique is the core of the program, Dan sets you up for it gradually to ensure that you’re not going to sabotage it with bad lifestyle or dietary choices. The idea is to interrupt the triggers that cause the autonomic nervous system to flip between parasympathetic and sympathetic/fight-or-flight dominance, preventing your body from healing itself. The R.E.W.I.R.E technique is roughly analogous to the Stop-Stop-Stop technique in The Gupta Program and I did it pretty religiously for the first few months, although I can’t say I noticed any effect at all. Dan said to just keep going with it, so I did.
One of the things Dan is very big on in the program is seeking out a medical doctor and other health professionals who know how to treat CFS. It’s a team effort. He certainly isn’t anti-conventional-medicine. He encourages you to find doctors, nutritionists and naturopaths who have experience helping CFS patients recover as part of the program.
I know of several doctors in Sydney who specialise in CFS; yet for some bizarre reason I’ve never seen any of them. In hindsight I now put this down to unconscious self-sabotage: I told myself it was too expensive since they charge an absolute fortune, and I was unlikely to learn anything that I didn’t already know after years of my own research. I think this was driven deep fear and lack of self-esteem that left me reluctant to spend my hard earned savings on expensive treatments that I lacked confidence in.
What I really lacked confidence in was myself and my ability to connect with people who could help me. I wasn’t even prepared to spend/“waste” the Australian government’s money on serially visiting multiple GP’s in quick succession until I got some answers, even though visiting GP’s who “bulk bill” is fully funded by the government. If I wasn’t getting the answers I needed, I could have just kept going until I did. On the other hand, the diagnostic tests that GP’s ordered weren’t always free, the ones I did have never showed any problem, and the really good GP’s don’t bulk bill meaning that I would have had to end up paying for it even when I wasn’t getting any real help.
Following Dan’s advice about connecting with medical doctors that know how to treat CFS, I decided to visit a local GP who has published papers and spoken at conferences about successfully treating patients with CFS. I contacted them to book an appointment and got put on their waiting list. I realised that one of the first things they were likely to ask me was whether I had been tested for sleep apnea. While I was certain that I didn’t have it, I didn’t want to spend $600/hour getting a referral to a sleep specialist, so I went to a regular GP for that first.
My sleep specialist seemed a bit bemused by my situation, or perhaps it was just the warmth of his South African demeanour shining through. I didn’t present as a typical sleep apnea case: I’m not overweight and don’t drink or smoke. I exercised regularly before I got sick, but now I was just exhausted all the time. He wasn’t exactly pushing to get me to have the polysomnograph which would rule sleep apnea out for sure, and while I was a little reluctant to waste my time and money on it, I wanted a definitive answer. While I only have basic hospital private health fund cover, it did cover this because it involves an overnight stay in hospital. When I happened to mention that I don’t sleep on my back because I always wake up, the sleep specialist said “Well, on that basis, I’d say let’s do the sleep study”.
In November 2018 after 4 months on ANS Rewire, I was stunned to be diagnosed with severe obstructive sleep apnea with an AHI of 49. This means I’m essentially waking up 49 times an hour to breathe; then falling back to sleep again before I realise. As a result, I never end up in the refreshing state of deep sleep that our bodies need to recover from the regular toll of everyday life. “That would explain why you’re tired”, the sleep specialist said. It was a bit of a shock but seemed extremely significant to me: It was the first mainstream medical test in 10 years that had shown any problem whatsoever, and it was “severe”. Why didn’t all the regular doctors I had visited over the years know to look for this, nor insist that I get it checked out? At this point my focus shifted from ANS Rewire to finding an effective way of treating my sleep apnea.
Even though I was only 4 months into the ANS Rewire program, I was still committed to it until I had an effective treatment that restored my health. I didn’t want to just give up. I kept meditating every day, and doing the R.E.W.I.R.E technique. I kept rewatching videos, and tracking my progress in the monthly spreadsheet. Here is my 12 Month Symptom Chart:
My 12 Month Symptom Chart on ANS Rewire
Ideally you want all the lines at the top, indicating full functioning unrestricted by symptoms.
Here is my 12 Month Activity Chart:
My 12 Month Activity Chart on ANS Rewire
The charts are constructed automatically from subjective measurements entered each month into the Recovery & Symptom Log spreadsheet that comes with the program. I tried to be as objective as possible. It looks like I was mostly making progress for the first 5 months, then regressed somewhat, then improved again. I was disappointed by the regression since I was still applying all the techniques to the best of my ability. I just wasn’t making much headway; probably because I wasn’t actually sleeping properly.
I now suspect undiagnosed and untreated obstructive sleep apnea is the cause of my fatigue, so I trialled CPAP therapy which reduced my AHI from 49 to about 13 in months 4 and 5, but I found it intolerable. I got a Mandibular Advancement Device during month 7. A subsequent sleep study showed that it is only partially effective, but I suspect it still accounts for the slight overall improvement in symptoms and activity charts during months 8-12. I was still meditating daily at this stage so perhaps that was helping too.
At 6 months into ANS Rewire I had another Skype session with Dan. I was very excited about the whole sleep apnea diagnosis and the treatments I was exploring for that which might actually make me well again. Finally there seemed to be a light at the end of the tunnel of suffering, and I wanted to share that with him. All Dan wanted to talk about was how the R.E.W.I.R.E-ing was going. I was starting to lose faith in that process and thought that for me, treating the sleep apnea was much more significant. I felt frustrated with Dan and sensed his frustration with me too, but felt he was being a bit ideologically inflexible. I wasn’t seeking a religion here, I was seeking whatever I could do that would restore my health and it appeared that I’d found something more relevant to me. He seemed to have more faith in R.E.W.I.R.E than I did at that point, and wanted me to have the faith too. But what if that faith was misplaced in my case?
I signed up to a didgeridoo class, bought myself a didgeridoo and started playing it every day since there is scientific evidence that playing didgeridoo can help with sleep apnea, which I now believe is the underlying cause of my CFS. There isn’t scientific evidence that a R.E.W.I.R.E or Stop-Stop-Stop technique can really retrain your autonomic nervous system. That said, there is a lot about the nervous system that modern science either doesn’t understand yet, and mainstream medical practitioners are often a long way behind the latest research.
One thing that has been well researched is the benefits of meditation, so I kept the daily meditation up for the full 12 months. Eventually I relaxed on that since I was frustrated at the amount of time it was taking, I have done meditation before with little apparent results, and I still wasn’t getting much better. After years of meditation I still find it boring; I just never get into a state of bliss with it. Since then I’ve started again though because I’m experiencing a lot of anxiety using CPAP and contemplating the orthodontic and surgical treatment I’m likely to need to liberate myself from it.
No doubt my case is far from typical because the sleep apnea diagnosis derailed my focus on ANS Rewire. I wasn’t prepared to delay treating the sleep apnea for 8 months while I completed 12 months of ANS Rewire, just to be sure that it alone was responsible for any recovery that I might have. I just want to get better as quickly as possible.
Treating my sleep apnea effectively is taking a long time and that’s probably why I still don’t feel great despite completing 12 months of ANS Rewire. No amount of meditation or R.E.W.I.R.E-ing is going to widen my overly narrow jaw arches and stop my tongue blocking my airway during the night. Practicing ANS Rewire is a commitment that takes time and effort every day which I would rather spend on activities that are more likely to restore my health given what I now know, or be more productive and enjoyable generally. I believe my health will most likely recover of its own accord once the sleep apnea is effectively treated; if not, I can always return to ANS Rewire later.
That said, I learned a lot in the ANS Rewire program about healthy living that I still practise. While being ill I did a great deal of reading and research into what makes for a long and healthy life generally, and it all accords with what Dan present in ANS Rewire. We really aren’t designed for the current western diet and lifestyle, and both CFS and sleep apnea are examples of resulting lifestyle illnesses we have to deal with that our grandparents generally didn’t.
So I avoid dairy, wheat and processed foods. I listen to what my body is telling me. I go to bed early and get up at sunrise. I started meditating again. I no longer hesitate about spending money on my health, even if it’s just to get a second opinion. I get that no single doctor has all the answers. I seek the best treatment from the best practitioners, even though they charge a fortune. I have a path forward and while I’m scared about the pain and cost involved, at least there is a way out of hell ahead of me.
I only know Dan from my casual interactions with him but I’m convinced that he is the real deal. He’s certainly not a money-grubbing charlatan and he spent a long time on little or no income while putting ANS Rewire together. Frankly, it’s a bargain. I blew the same amount of money on a single visit to a dentist last week just to get his recommendation on how to fix my jaws. When I baulked at the cost, I reminded myself that it was worth it to get a second opinion to radical jaw surgery.
Will ANS Rewire work for you? I can’t say. It didn’t work for me, but that’s because I have severe sleep apnea which it doesn’t address. In the future when my sleep apnea is treated I might return to it, but I may not need to since my body may heal itself once I’m getting deep, refreshing sleep every night. I want to do a recovery interview with Dan once I’m fully recovered and have an answer to that question, but not until then. I want to be absolutely sure that I’ve got all this shit nailed before I go pretending that I have the answers or telling anyone else what to do.
One of the downsides of educational products like ANS Rewire is that despite the warnings, they can end up being a substitute for actual medical advice from a real medical doctor. In hindsight this is what happened to me with The Gupta Program, Mikel Therapy, all the other wierd-ass things I’ve tried, including ANS Rewire. The time I spent on these programs was time that I wasn’t spending on getting the polysomnograph, finding out I had sleep apnea, and getting it treated effectively. That is not Dan’s fault; in fact it was his encouragement in the program that led me to decide to see the ludicrously expensive CFS specialist, which motivated me to have the polysomnograph to “rule out” sleep apnea first. I still haven’t seen that CFS specialist but he’s my next port of call if I still have CFS symptoms once I have confirmed that my sleep apnea is treated effectively.
I can’t give medical advice, but if I had my time over again and I had all the symptoms of CFS and a diagnosis, I would hot foot it to a sleep lab and get a polysomnograph to rule out sleep apnea before trying The Gupta Program or ANS Rewire. I’d also get a dental checkup to make certain I didn’t have gum disease, since that can also fuck up your health royally and no doctor is likely to spot the connection. Then I’d pay whatever it takes to see a doctor with experience treating CFS. Don’t do what I did and avoid going because you think it’s not worth the cost, are scared of needing a specialist opinion or think unconsciously that you really don’t deserve it.
If you’ve already had a polysomnograph, a dental check, and blank looks from your doctor specialising in CFS, then I’d highly recommend Dan Neuffer’s ANS Rewire program. The Gupta Program is its closest competition and was updated last year for online delivery: By the miracle of time travel you can read my Review of The Gupta Program For Chronic Health Conditions here. If you’re procrastinating because you can’t choose between them, I’d say flip a coin and just go for it because they’re both really good and cover very similar ground. At this point ANS Rewire has more lifestyle and health content, and is the best independent CFS recovery program I’ve examined closely so it’s the one I would recommend. Just make sure you’ve really excluded the possibility of having sleep apnea with a polysomnograph first, OK?
If you found this helpful, please send me a donation via PayPal to say "Thanks!"
47 Comments
Graham Stoney · January 8, 2024 at 9:53 PM
Mickel Therapy is one of the things I tried prior to being diagnosed with OSA so I do know about it. While it deals the most directly with emotional responses, Gupta, ANS Rewire and The Lightning Process also cover managing emotions. OSA does not develop quickly so it’s possible you’ve had it longer than you think. What you say about my knowledge and assumptions don’t feel good for me so this will be my last reply. Good luck with your healing journey.
Jack · August 1, 2024 at 5:22 AM
Hi, I’ve been dealing with cfs or adrenal fatigue for sometime, fully couch bound and unable to work. During this my throat has been getting tight and soft palate of mouth collapses to my tongue preventing me from falling asleep. I panickly bought a CPAP over a month ago, it’s difficult, I swallow air a lot. I actually did a sleep study 2 nights ago, but not faithful of what results may be. Often times I put on CPAP and my nose is clogged and unclogging it is a challenge. My question is, was the MAD helpful? If I move my jaw forward right now I can still feel my issue so I’m doubtful. Also, I went to a dentist, which I was very skeptical, bc she said I have a very narrow upper jaw. Does that tend to be a problem. What has worked for you in that? I know this is a lot. Thank you
SUSIE NOVIS · January 6, 2024 at 11:18 PM
PS I also have been diagnosed with OSA (Obstructive Sleep Apnoea) and am being treated with a CPAP machine, but despite that treatment, I still suffered from exhaustion. However, the exhaustion is improving and my energy is returning now that I’ve undertaken the LP (the Lightning process) for “fatigue”! I’d highly recommend it, along with MT, Mickel Therapy, devised by Dr David Mickel, a former GP in Scotland.
I agree that the Gupta Method is a bit of a con & would never recommend it to anyone. He seems to have cribbed his ideas from others without fully appreciatind other work that also went into these methods he’s cribbed from!
Graham Stoney · January 7, 2024 at 6:32 AM
The Gupta Program, ANS Rewire, The Lightning Process, and Mickel Therapy all work by attempting to calm the autonomic nervous system, and differ only slightly in the approach used. None of them worked for me when I had undiagnosed and untreated obstructive sleep apnea. If you tried Gupta before you were diagnosed with OSA, I’m not surprised it didn’t work for you. I wouldn’t say that makes it a “con”.
SUSIE NOVIS · January 7, 2024 at 11:04 PM
Hi Graham – thanks for your caring response. However, I can attest that Mickel Therapy is NOT what you claim it to be, and informs me that that you know very little about it, but have possibly made your own assumptions from your learning with Dan Neuffler’s system. I did the training with Dr David Mickel & can assure you that it’s about keeping daily “Notes” on our symptoms, and using them as “messengers’ to inform us of where we might be being treated unfairly, but are repressing important e-motions such as anger (what happened for me!), but welcome and honour our very real feelings and then to take appropriate, healthy action upon those feelings and messengers. That helped me to heal almost instantaneously! It was like a miracle, but one that did not change or cause me to ‘relapse’.
I have been healed from ME/CFS since 2006, after applying MT.
I also wish to point out that I was NOT dealing with undiagnosed OSA back then – that has been a far more recent development, therefore does NOT explain why the Gupta method did not work for me! Ashok Gupta’s method did NOT resonate for me, as Mickel therapy did. It felt badly informed and loosely based on the Lightning Process’ getting out if ‘stuckness’ process. I know that Ashok Gupta did train in the LP and that’s why it felt like a con to me. It didn’t help that he also rented rooms on London’s prestigious Harley Street, well-known for housing eminent physicians, when he wasn’t one!
I have recently used the LP (Lightning Process) to help heal fatigue that is NOT ME/CFS, but has other symptoms, and am still awaiting a diagnosis from medical doctors; it’s worked!
I’ve tried reading Dan’s book but am finding it very hard going, in truth, for knowing the many causes has not helped me to heal anything, whether it be ME/CFS or fatigue caused by something else, such as after a Stroke.
I wish you well with your own healing journey.
SUSIE NOVIS · January 6, 2024 at 11:12 PM
PS – I notice that people mention the Gupta Method! I, too, tried this, when I was unwell with ME/CFS & desperate for help, but found it irritating as well as unhelpful. Looking back, now, I suspect that he might have cribbed his process from The Lightning Process, WITHOUT fully understanding what was truly involved i the process. Yes, I also suspect that he was simply out to make money out of people, despite his professed promise to refund money is his process did not work for people…..
Roger · June 6, 2022 at 9:19 PM
I have been on ANS rewire for a year and three months. I have been thoroughly diagnosed with ME/CFS, sleep apnea has been ruled out. The program has helped me a lot, I am much better than when I started the program. I am still not recovered and my curve has flattend a bit in the last few months., but this could well be because my activity is too high or that I am doing something wrong. Dan always says to evaluate the last six weeks to see if there is any progress. I am going to stick with it for now and I would recommend the program. Like you said, the program is good value for money compared to other similar programs.
Graham Stoney · June 29, 2022 at 4:47 PM
Hi Roger. I’m glad you’re finding the ANS rewire program helpful. I’m curious how sleep apnea was ruled out for you? Cheers, Graham
David · October 15, 2021 at 3:54 AM
Graham, thank you for sharing your very interesting personal story. I always benefit from reading others’ experiences and perspectives with CFS, which I have had for a few years. Home sleep monitoring seems to show that I have central sleep apnea, not severely desaturating every night but only on some nights. I sleep with my mouth taped but still have episodes of desaturation. I’m wondering if in your research on sleep apnea you came across anything suggesting a program like ANS Rewire might possibly help to “rewire” the brain to control or reverse central sleep apnea, the causes of which seems more poorly understood than OSA.
Graham Stoney · October 15, 2021 at 6:49 AM
I’m glad you found it helpful David. I’m not clear on what causes central sleep apnea either and I didn’t have it during my sleep studies. However, most of the events reported by my CPAP machine are Clear Airway a.k.a. central events, which have been declining over time as you can see in my latest update. Twelve Months Vivos mRNA Appliance Update. My Vivos provider believes this is due to the breathing exercises I did and I think emotional stress plays a role too. ANS Rewire may help, but I’d suggest some emotionally focussed therapy particularly if you suffer from anxiety. Cheers, Graham
Laurel · October 13, 2021 at 3:39 PM
I have mild CFS and am very lucky that my doctor suggested that I get a sleep study about 5 years ago. The 1st sleep study was one that I did at home. Afterwards they gave me a machine that automatically sets itself (ResMed). The 1st diagnosis was obstructive sleep apnea. But the machine they gave me didn’t get my apnea’s download enough. So I was brought into the clinic for an overnight sleep study and they found that I also have central sleep apnea and needed a more complicated and more expensive machine. So my 1st suggestion to everyone out there is to make sure you are tested for both central and obstructive sleep apnea. I got a new machine and started using it with a SoClean to make cleaning easier.
I just discovered a drawback to the SoClean. It it started interfering quite a bit with the operation of my CPAP machine making it unusable. So, in desperation, I took the black tubing off the top of the humidifier water chamber and taped it up soID the water wouldn’t spurt out. That night the CPAP machine was so quiet and my number of apnea’s was 5.5. It’s been the same every day sense for the past week. Before that they would range between 7 and 11 and my doctor was talking about having me come back into the clinic for another sleep study – which I don’t want to do because of COVID. And it wouldn’t of helped because the problem was with the soclean.
My new solution is that I have made a plug for the soClean out of a bit of the black tubing that goes between the machine and my CPAP. Every night I unplugged the long black tubing and plug in my little plug and fall to sleep to my quiet CPAP machine. In the morning I refill my humidifier and set up the SoClean to clean my CPAP machine that evening.
It also took quite a bit of effort to get a mask that works for me. I use Dreamwear which covers my nose only. I hope this information helps a few people.
Jody Jung · May 5, 2021 at 10:50 PM
Hi, your story seems so much like mine. I was looking into CFS rewire. I have had CFS for 17 years, disabling for 10. I recently had a bad crash which prompted lots of testing and come to find out I have sleep apnea, borderline mild to moderate. Why has nobody ever suggested a sleep study before. Why didn’t I think of it since like you stated I can’t sleep on my back without gasping. I get my CPAP tomorrow so we’ll see what happens. I read some of your updates and I see you have a jaw expander device. I had this procedure about 13 years ago, then braces. My teeth are straighter and it did help my nasal breathing. But still have apnea so guess it didn’t help that. I’m hoping for some positive results with the CPAP although not looking forward to wearing it
Graham Stoney · May 6, 2021 at 8:19 AM
It sure is frustrating to be ill for so long without knowing why; that must have driven you crazy. I hope you get some relief with your CPAP machine. Cheers, Graham
Sarah Rurka · March 8, 2021 at 6:16 PM
I have an AHI of 60 but I’m also convinced of the nervous systems’ role in apnea.
Though my DNA did help a bit.
Graham Stoney · March 8, 2021 at 6:25 PM
Hi Sarah,
I agree that the two are linked, but it’s not always clear which is influencing the other. What have you found most helpful for dealing with your apnea?
Cheers,
Graham
Dylan · February 17, 2021 at 9:10 PM
Hi there. Thanks for this write up. Your evaluation feels very fair, open minded and sensible. I am looking into ANS Rewire, hoping it is better, more scientific than Gupta (which I felt was a pile of charlatanism). I was also hoping it did not include the “stop, stop” technique which I feel is silly and detached from reality in a way that may be harmful to some CFS/ME patients. However, I do have a friend who is making progress on ANS Rewire and recommends it, and that includes recommending the stop technique. On my end, I have seen people make progress on many different techniques while others do not. I have been in recovery using radical rest and lifestyle changes for a couple years now, myself.
Graham Stoney · February 18, 2021 at 7:20 AM
Hi Dylan,
ANS rewire is more comprehensive that Gupta in that it includes about twice as much material and goes deeper into diet and lifestyle changes, but they both cover very similar ground. The physical movement on the mat involved in Gupta’s Stop-Stop-Stop technique may have an advantage from a sensorimotor psychotherapy perspective but ANS Rewire’s R.E.W.I.R.E. technique is roughly analogous: they both aim to interrupt the autonomic sympathetic activation and put your nervous system back into a parasympathetic state where your body can start restoring itself. DNRS attempts to do the same thing with a mantra. I’d still recommend a polysomnograph if you haven’t had one since a sleep disorder will blow all of this out of the water. As you say, different techniques work for different people and it’s about finding one that works for you; I’m glad you’re making progress with radical rest and lifestyle changes.
Cheers,
Graham
Bradley Simmonds · June 11, 2021 at 4:26 PM
I did the ANS Rewire program. It didn’t work for me. On top of that one part of the process is writing down a bunch of times that supplements won’t cure you. The crazy thing is that supplements have been a huge factor in me improving. Therefore in a way the ANS program actually held me back from recovery. I would recommend anyone spends their money elsewhere.
Graham Stoney · June 11, 2021 at 5:33 PM
It’s crazy all right. The big irony for me is that what helps one person won’t necessarily work for someone else. I could have R.E.W.I.R.E.d until the cows came home and it wouldn’t have made a lick of difference if I hadn’t gone to yet-another doctor (prompted by Dan’s suggestion in the program) and ended up being tested for obstructive sleep apnea. That was the turning point for me. I hear where you’re coming from and am glad you’ve found some benefit from supplements. Cheers, Graham
Susan Bernardo · August 26, 2020 at 10:46 AM
Thanks heaps for sharing your story. I found a great deal of helpful information in there and appreciate your honesty. It helped to confirm for me that Dan’s motives for what he is doing are genuine and altruistic. I think that there is a great deal of wisdom in his understanding of ANS dysfunction and its role in MECFS. However, I believe that my underlying problems of a major anxiety disorder and PTSD are the main culprits in my development of MECFS and until these problems are sorted then I can’t expect to see any significant improvement in my symptoms. Anxiety is a very familiar companion for me and that can’t be helping my ANS to be in balance!
One of the main things I got out of reading his book was the importance of daily mindful meditation. I have discovered a heap of meditation programs on Youtube and I listen to one or the other just before I take a nap or go to sleep. I have never achieved ‘bliss’ but I enjoy the PEACE that comes with them. I have spent a fortune on alternative therapies for my PTSD and found that a master kinesiologist was the most helpful for me. As you say, we have to keep looking for answers and therapies that will help us to move forward. I plan to purchase Dan’s rewire program and use it to ‘fine tune’ my daily recovery program, which is very similar to the one he recommends. I will also share it with my support group.
Again, many thanks Graham. from Sue.
Graham · August 26, 2020 at 12:33 PM
Hi Susan,
I’m glad you found my review helpful. Many of the symptoms of MECFS are indeed similar to the symptoms of PTSD. I’m curious if you know the cause of your PTSD? This may give you clues as to how best to heal it.
In my case I relate to Complex/Abandonment PTSD, which I’m still working my way through. My case is doubly complicated because I also have severe sleep apnea, which I’ve only recently discovered and probably had most of my life, and that’s probably prevented my nervous system from getting the sleep it needed to heal properly.
I hear that you found a kinesiologist the most helpful, which makes sense to me because trauma gets trapped in our nervous systems and bodies. Kinesiology is body-based so it might work better for dealing with trauma than regular talking therapies. I’m wondering if you’ve tried any somatic therapies for your PTSD like somatic experiencing or even primal scream therapy? You might find this article on PTSD that a friend of mine wrote who came back from serving with the army in Afghanistan with PTSD. He healed his by learning to express his emotions, particularly his anger at the people who tried to kill him with a roadside Improvised Explosive Device.
You may find that Dan’s program helps you unhook some of the triggers for your PTSD, so that your ANS can settle down and your body can heal itself. It may also be worth checking out the site Chronic Illness Trauma Studies, which talks a lot about the link between trauma and MECFS.
I wish you well in finding the healing that you seek!
Cheers,
Graham
JJ Nick · July 8, 2020 at 3:13 PM
Graham, thanks for your extensive article and I’m impressed you’ve been able to respond to so many comments. For your reader’s interest, over the next year or so, there will be a Canadian research project on DNRS (Canada’s version of Dan Neuffer or Ashok Gupta’s programs). So far over 1000 people have taken DNRS.
Also two Western Canadian doctors are creating their own programs too. See one doctor’s perspective on ActionCIND’s channel on vimeo
She has ME/CFS and has improved significantly using neuroplasticity. She freely admits at the end of the video that it doesn’t help everyone, and some people drop out because it is work. The other Dr, I heard from today, says he doesn’t recommend his course for anyone in a crash or who can’t stay within their energy envelope by adding 1-2 hours per day for the coursework. Personally I don’t think one has to do 1 hr of “homework” a day, as they do, unless they are counting the minutes of meditation too. A few minutes throughout the day on the actual visualisation process, every day, I think is the best because its sustainable.
Janet · May 12, 2020 at 7:00 PM
CFS can cause sleep apnea.
Graham · May 29, 2020 at 3:10 AM
Hi Janet. I’m curious what you think the link is? I’d say it’s more likely to work the other way around. Cheers, Graham
Blue Moon · February 27, 2020 at 1:48 PM
Dan’s book appears to be just an advertisement for his ANS REWIRE Online Program. Please do not purchase his ANS REWIRE Online Program. It’s a whole bunch of old interventions that are not effective for CFS, Fibromyalgia, etc.
Also, beware of his money back guarantee for his ANS REWIRE Online Program. You think, “oh, well he offers me my money back, so if it’s not effective, I won’t lose any money.” But he lives in Australia, and he requires you to mail his program materials at a P.O. Box in Australia. It can costs hundreds of dollars to return the program materials if you live outside of Australia. So all that money you think you’re getting back goes to shipping! Beware. Stay away from this book and his program! Unless you enjoy giving away your money.
Graham · February 29, 2020 at 7:43 PM
For something that is “just an advertisement”, CFS Unravelled is certainly packed with a lot of advice. Did you actually read it? What happened when you implemented the advice it contains?
Rick Kwitkoski · April 20, 2020 at 4:51 AM
Graham. I have just given Dan’s book a couple of days ago. I have NO IDEA what is wrong with me but neither does my GP, three specialists, four “alternative medicine” practitioners and countless friends who immediately tell me they know what is wrong. Several blood tests of different sorts, X-rays, CT scans, MRI’s have all shown nothing.
You say that you have been helped by Dan. I am still not convinced that my malady is CFS but it may be.
The one BIG flag that I came up with when I started reading his book is his seeming aversion to vaccines. And his quotes from Behe and others did not give me confidence either.
I have a Biology background and I am well conversant with human anatomy and physiology. My GP doesn’t like the fact that I understand his mumbo jumbo but I do.
I will go forward with Dan’s book but I will also read your perspective about your own journey.
Graham · April 23, 2020 at 8:09 AM
I hear your reservations and I share your skepticism. I recall that Dan came down with CFS after a vaccination, but I didn’t get the impression he was averse to vaccines. I think the anti-vaccine crowd are mostly nut jobs, and I wouldn’t put Dan among them. I’ve done a little research into autoimmune diseases to see if that’s what was going on for me, and there appears to be a lot about the immune system that science doesn’t yet know. Some Functional Medicine doctors like Mark Hyman seem to get results with their patients that most mainstream doctors don’t. There’s a lot doctors don’t understand, which is why you’re probably getting blank looks from them when they can’t work out what is wrong with you or the treatments they propose don’t seem to work. Most people succumb to CFS after an infection of some sort and it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccination could trigger whatever mechanism is causing the illness. It will be interesting to see if the current COVID19 crisis is followed by a wave of CFS cases.
Part of me thinks that CFS is caused by an infection of the vagus nerve, as I once heard Stephen Porges (author of The Polyvagel Theory) hypothesise on a podcast. It’s never been tested because you can’t biopsy the vagus nerve of a living person and CFS alone is rarely fatal. There’s no treatment for it either, other than to adopt a super-healthy lifestyle, rest heaps and hope for the best. That’s a common element of all the CFS recovery programs I’ve looked at, including ANS Rewire.
It’s possible that ANS Rewire works, but not for the reason Dan thinks it does. There’s enough in the book to get you started if you’re strapped for cash. I actually think my CFS was caused by sleep apnea and now consider CPAP my primary treatment. I’m no longer actively doing ANS Rewire (or The Gupta Program, or anything else), although I have retained a lot of the helpful lifestyle and diet advice, and I’m still careful about emotional triggers. In hindsight I wish I had had a polysomnograph much earlier and not wasted time on these programs, but I’m still not fully recovered so we’ll see what the future holds.
I’m really curious about the quotes from Behe you mention; I don’t recall that. Can you give me an example?
As for what’s happening for you, I don’t claim to know. Have you had a polysomnograph to rule out sleep apnea?
Good luck on your journey!
Cheers,
Graham
Eric · July 9, 2021 at 5:11 AM
Dear Graham, thanks for your Post. I was wondering what you mean by “It’s possible that ANS Rewire works, but not for the reason Dan thinks it does.” What is the reason it works then?
Graham Stoney · July 9, 2021 at 10:32 AM
I don’t know. The human body is extremely complex and Dan’s program is quite holistic. The emphasis is on down-regulating the sympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system so the body can heal itself, which makes sense even if some of the details aren’t proven.
Elena · February 7, 2020 at 10:18 PM
Thank you very much Graham for the article. It was very helpful for me because i did not get enough information about Dan’s program from his site. Now i understand. I want to say to you about Buteyko Method (If you did not hear about Buteyko ), which i know helps with sleep apnea very successfully. I know several people who recover completely from this condition. Wish you good health and happiness, Elena.
Graham · February 8, 2020 at 8:28 AM
I’m glad you found it helpful Elena. Yes I’ve practiced Buteyko and other similar methods. Thanks for the tip. Cheers, Graham
Elena · February 9, 2020 at 1:20 PM
Unfortunately Buteyko did not help me also. But i like very much his theory, it seems very clear and convincing. I always am envy of people who can practice it and get great results. And i know many of them. Now I think because of emotional trauma and disregulated nervous system i was not able to practice it, even though i tried to apply it 3 times.
Nancy Ramsdal · January 5, 2020 at 3:52 PM
I have often read your blog as I am also recovering from CFS. I read Dan’s book a few years ago, and found some pieces that have really helped me to function better. I utilized his graduated exercise program to increase my ability to walk at a decent pace and for 20-30 minutes now from granny walking 2 minutes when I started. Using a heart monitor watch while I’m active to check my heart rate has helped me to not cause flare-ups after I am active. His recommendations for calming down the fight or flight reaction really helped, as well as the elimination diet to figure out food intolerances and give your body fuel. I have also been diagnosed with severe sleep apnea and was quite surprised by it as my only risk factor is ehlers-danlos syndrome. Putting all of those things together, I am doing much better, but still not able to return to full time work. Maybe his ANS REWIRE would be a good next step for me after I finish my next round of tests to figure out if my headaches are from Eagles Syndrome, as CSF Leak has been ruled out. Thanks for the review, and best wishes for your future research!
Graham · January 5, 2020 at 4:05 PM
Hi Nancy. Thanks for stopping by. Has your sleep apnea been fully treated? If not, I would do that before trying ANS Rewire since your other symptoms could be a result of chronic lack of deep sleep. That can lead to a vast array of bizarre symptoms which are challenging to target and treat individually, but may well resolve once you’re sleeping properly. Cheers, Graham
Nancy Ramsdal · January 5, 2020 at 4:49 PM
I started using the CPAP 4 years ago, but haven’t followed it closely as I feel like I’m sleeping much better. Have been in the Kaiser HMO the last 3 years, but got on my husband’s PPO insurance Jan 1st, so now I can go back to the original sleep doctor who caught the sleep apnea for follow up. Haven’t done a second sleep study aftervI got the machine, but they can probably just see my sleep patterns from the data the machine collects.
Graham · January 5, 2020 at 6:19 PM
You need to be using CPAP for at least 7 hours per night every night for at least 3 months with the machine reporting an AHI < 5 to know that the therapy is effective. Otherwise you could be chasing your tail looking for other causes of your daytime symptoms, when the answer could be right under your nose.
Kenny King · January 29, 2021 at 1:21 PM
Graham, like one of your other posters, I also have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. My EDS has caused my Sleep Apnea. I almost always look tired. Due to EDS, I don’t have enough healthy collagen as per the geneticist to hold my throat taunt during sleep keeping it open so I can adequately breathe. I had MAJOR surgery moving my maxilla and mandible forward which automatically pulled the tongue forward also because of the Hyoid attachment. This helped me a great deal for years, but as I have aged (I’m in my 50s) the jaw muscles have weakened even more and my apnea is back in full force. I do fairly well as long as I do NOT sleep on my back which is the worst. If I spend the bulk of the night on my side I am much better off especially my right side. I used a CPAP for years prior to my surgery but I don’t any longer. I do NOT suggest the surgery which was insanely painful with a LONG recovery period. I consider that surgery one of the many traumas of my life, and we know how unhealthy stress and excess cortisol is on the body and immune system. I still have many other health issues. I am going to try DNRS. Are you familiar with that program? Similar to ANSREWIRE but different too ..it still deals with Neuroplasticity brain rewiring for health improvement. I am also almost done with Dr.Joe Dispenza’s Online Intensive Workshop and well worth every penny. He is one of the masters of Limbic System rewiring. I also highly recommend the book CURED which can be purchased on Amazon. The Audible version if fantastic. I’d be honored to talk further with you if you are interested. You are welcome to reach out to me via my email.
Graham Stoney · January 29, 2021 at 1:59 PM
Hi Kenny,
I’m sorry to hear what you’re going through; that sounds like hell. It sounds like you’ve had maxillomandibular advancement surgery, which I’m hoping to avoid. I haven’t tried DNRS myself, but I had a coaching client who did it and her description of it sounded similar to ANS Rewire and The Gupta Program. I’m also familiar with Joe Dispenza’s and am a little skeptical that it would be effective for me until the physical airway restriction is resolved. I’ve put the book you recommend on my reading list. Good luck with your recovery!
Cheers,
Graham
Sandy · January 5, 2020 at 9:24 AM
This is very interesting. I’ve had to put the ANS Rewire programme on hold while I focus on my mental health. I was finally diagnosed with Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and it’s not possible to commit to ANS Rewire and ongoing EMDR. EMDR is emotionally gruelling, but it works. I’m going to go back to ANS Rewire once I’ve finished EMDR. I have already seen a moderate improvement in CFS symptoms since beginning EMDR (too many acronyms!). I’m no longer using the walking sticks, for example. I theorise that, for me, the CFS is an extreme version of the freeze response due to severe, prolonged and repeated trauma. I needed to deal with much of that trauma before attempting ANS Rewire because otherwise I would eventually end up ill again having never really dealt with the root cause (and as you know, some things, especially from childhood, are so deeply imprinted that it’s not possible to rationalise or meditate your way out of it). The ANS Rewire programme should help with the illness once I have dealt with the huge psychological issues, but it really would have been putting the cart before the horse to do it the other way round.
I look forward to reading how you get on, Graham. Best of luck! Keep up with the blogging ?
Graham · January 5, 2020 at 9:39 AM
Hi Sandy,
I get where you’re coming from and agree it’s hard to regulate your nervous system when there’s traumatic residue in it. I haven’t been formally diagnosed with CPTSD, but it immediately made sense when I heard of it as the end result of growing up with a narcissistic mother whose arguments with my ineffective but explosive father really terrified me as a child. They were both emotionally unavailable parents unable to teach me to self-soothe and the memories that came up for processing when I had EMDR were mostly about them. There is also a newer therapy called Brainspotting which is more targetted because the therapist uses eye movement cues to hone in on the trapped emotions, while EMDR moves the eyes back and forth all over the place in more of a shotgun approach. But if it’s working for you, stick at it; that’s awesome!
Will do, thanks,
Graham
Matt · January 5, 2020 at 8:08 AM
Your sleep apnea is the result of a low energy condition in the body. It will resolve as your energy levels increase. Dan is likely right in his theory on CFS. Things like Vipassana, coaching from a recovered mentor and idea sharing with people that have recovers are the fastes ways out. You can also track your HRV to correlate to your methods of of restoring parasympathetic activity. The component you are not fully aware of yet is why your sympathetic system is over engaged to the point of disregulation. Th is is caused by received threat. The threat is your inability to navigate via your intuition. Your mother or primary care giver did not mirror you emotions.. you adopted her/their emotional state which conflicts with your own. Your ego shits you off from this. Learn how Toto identify and express your own authentic emotions and your health will recover rapidly. This is how many of us recover.
Graham · January 5, 2020 at 8:37 AM
Hi Matt,
I think you’ve got it around backwards: My low energy condition in the body is the result of the sleep apnea, which in turn is the result of having underdeveloped jaws that leave insufficient space for my tongue. That’s a physical structural problem, not an emotional or nervous system one; although it does lead to them. Poor sleep throws everything else out of whack and you have to address the underlying root cause in order to fix it; then the other stuff in Dan’s program can potentially work. I didn’t say that Dan’s theory is wrong, just that his program didn’t work for me because it didn’t (and wasn’t intended to) address structural causes of sleep apnea.
It is true that my mother didn’t mirror my emotions and give me good emotional regulation. I’ve spent many years working on this when I should, in hindsight, also have been addressing the jaw/tongue issue. CFS (and sleep apnea) are multifactorial and you’ve got to address everything in order to fully recover. Only addressing one of the causal factors is like plugging one hole in a bucket full of holes; the bucket keeps on leaking until you’ve really got everything.
I would be wary about making pronouncements about other people’s condition if you haven’t personally examined them. While I’ve seen a lot of medical professionals, I don’t recall seeing you.
If you’re unwell, you have my sympathy and I wish you a speedy recovery.
Cheers,
Graham
Matt · January 5, 2020 at 10:14 AM
Reach out to people who recover from this condition, ask questions about what your blind spots might be from people who have. Walked your path before you. It seem like you totally missed the point. Your sleep apnea will resolve when your body begins to function more normally. This is good news, not a condemnation of you. As for me, I was I’ll for years and recovered. In fact, I surfed the last hurricane for 4 hours and am in the best shape of my life in my 40’s. Trying to help shorten your your health experience, not compete with you. It’s your health….
Graham · January 5, 2020 at 4:01 PM
I’m glad you’ve recovered Matt, and I get that you’re trying to be helpful here but I don’t appreciate the lecture and I think your advice is misguided. It may have applied to your circumstances, but I don’t believe it applies to mine. I have indeed reached out to people with sleep apnea to find an effective treatment and that is what I’m pursuing. Wishful thinking won’t grow my jaws, and I think you have missed this point. I don’t want to debate this any further with you. Enjoy the surf!
Kebab · October 13, 2022 at 5:47 PM
I realize this post will be quite old response to Matt. But you are missing his point.
He has a physical abnormality that is measurable in time & space that prevents him from being able to sleep properly. Vipassana may be great for many people, but…it won’t cure that.
Erik · January 9, 2020 at 6:38 PM
I think the keyword here Matt is “this is how many of us recover”, the fact is what works for one person may not work for another.
How about you suggest how Graham can improve his low energy condition, if you have followed this blog you would see Graham has done extensive emotional work, how about providing actual practices to improve the low energy condition.. Elaborate pls..