Note: This post may contain statements that I no longer consider true.
See: The Vivos mRNA Appliance Didn't Improve My Obstructive Sleep Apnea.
It’s been a full year since I started using my Vivos mRNA Appliance in the hope of permanently curing my severe sleep apnea. This month’s CPAP data showed only a very slight decline in my CPAP peak pressure, probably because despite my best efforts I haven’t actually been expanding the appliance at all this month!
In total so far, I’ve worn the appliance an average of 16.39 hours/day, expanded the upper appliance about 5.5 mm sideways and I estimate 6 mm forward, and the lower appliance 6 mm sideways.
Surprisingly, this doesn’t appear to be any different from last month even though I’ve been turning the screws half a turn twice a week and thought I was keeping a close eye on screws winding backwards!
All I can assume is that the screws wind themselves back as much as a full turn in a day so I don’t notice. Perhaps this is a disadvantage of cycling the appliance in and out every hour. I’m going back to a full turn once a week so I can really feel the appliance getting tight every time I expand and buying a taper gauge so I can measure it each day to ensure this doesn’t happen again. Again!
On the positive side, I have larger gaps between my teeth than I did when I started. It’s remarkably hard to take good pictures of your own teeth, so I’ll leave it until I get photos from my dentist to publish pictures.
I had another attempt at sleeping with The Bow facemask this month for a few days; but I woke up feeling terrible each day and concluded I can’t sleep with it on, so I’ve only been wearing it during the day. I chose The Bow because it doesn’t exert any reverse pressure on the mandible, but it is rather clunky to turn over with in bed and that keeps waking me up. It is possible that another design would be easier to sleep with, but it would still be quite tricky trying to seal the gaps where the elastic bands come through the lips. I have been averaging about 4 hours of facemask wear during the day, so this month probably hasn’t been completely wasted.
I also had an attempt at ramping up my resistance and cardio exercise, which also left me feeling terrible, so I stopped doing that too. One reason to try cardio exercise is that it releases human growth hormone, but I doubt this is likely to work if I must push myself so hard that I feel rotten later. As an alternative I’ve started taking GABA before bed each evening since GABA also increases production of human growth hormone.
Here’s my latest usage graph:
Here’s this month’s CPAP pressure trend analysis showing a slight decrease in peak CPAP pressure:
The overall CPAP pressure trend is still impacted by the increase in the first few months:
On the positive side, my AHI continues to fall. I only had one night this month above 5:
Hence the overall event trend continues to fall significantly, so either the appliance is working or I’m getting more acclimatised to CPAP therapy, or some combination of both:
I hope I have more progress to report next month.
14 Comments
Ali · December 11, 2021 at 1:50 PM
HI! Thanks so much for sharing your story! I”m in the narrowing down my options phase right now. My airway is so small I don’t have much time to waste. Of course I’d love to avoid surgery if I could but now i’m discouraged by your results with the Vivos. Why were you told you were not a candidate for MMA surgery? Have you started to feel better despite the numbers? I am basically non functional.I was hoping the Vivos would show better results faster. Thanks again!
Graham Stoney · December 16, 2021 at 6:23 PM
I was told by ENT Dr Greg Lvoff that he wouldn’t be able to bring my upper jaw far enough forward that I wouldn’t require CPAP, and I’d end up looking like a chimp. I’m going to seek a second opinion from an Dr Lydia Lim, an OMF who specialises in the procedure. No, I don’t feel a great deal better, so my search for a solution continues. Cheers, Graham
Jeanette Oki · October 15, 2021 at 6:00 AM
Hi Graham. Thank you for your updates. Can you clarify the expansion numbers? When you say sideways do you mean transverse, or overall 3D expansion? It seems like 5.5 is a lot of transverse expansion, you know, measuring intermolar width. You might mean something else. Can you help me understand. I am considering Vivos. As a point of interest, I just saw an oral surgeon today and he did not seem opposed to palate expansion via appliance, even though he does DOME.
Graham Stoney · October 15, 2021 at 6:53 AM
Hi Jeanette. Yes, I mean transverse: the gap between the left and right sides of my upper mRNA appliance is now about 6 mm. That would translate into a slightly smaller intermolar width expansion. I’m glad to hear you got an opinion from an oral surgeon; there are lots of ways to attack this problem and it’s worth exploring them. Let me know what you end up doing. Cheers, Graham
Lisa · October 5, 2021 at 5:19 PM
Hi Graham,
I was wondering – if you have an overbite, have you expanded the lower appliance forward?
Has your mandible extended and overbite improved?
My sister had her jaw expanded (to fix extraction & retraction when young). The expansion created huge gaps between her teeth. The dentist Dr Anne-Maree Cole used a fixed appliance and closed the gaps as treatment progressed. Will you be closing the gaps afterwards with braces?
Will you require (removable) braces permanently to keep it all together?
If you had the option to use Homeoblock, would you prefer it to Vivos?
I’d be interested to know if is there an improvement in the appearance of the mandible i.e. a more balanced look?
Have you had x-rays to show the growth of bone?
Is there a combination of bone growth and pushing the teeth outwards as well? (any stress on the teeth?)
It would be good if your dentist could take a video to upload to YouTube.
I look forward to seeing the photos. Before and after shots would be great!
Sorry if you already answered some of these questions!
Thanks and keep well ?
Lisa
Lisa · October 5, 2021 at 5:22 PM
I just posted the above message and put a flower emoji after I typed “keep well” but the image turned into a question mark. Anyway, hope you enjoy the spring flowers!
Lisa
GB · October 5, 2021 at 3:32 PM
Thanks again Graham. That’s pretty disappointing that people spend thousands on these devices and the screws can’t be trusted. Have you given feedback to Vivos? Have they responded?
Again, thanks for your rigorous postings, it really is a godsend for people researching solutions.
Graham Stoney · October 5, 2021 at 4:57 PM
No worries. I’ll talk to my provider about it and see what he says. Cheers, Graham
Erik · October 3, 2021 at 6:34 PM
Hey Graham, Sorry to hear you weren’t able to ramp up your exercise, might better to stick with more restorative type movements like Qigong, Yoga etc etc… In terms of strength training keep the volume low, maybe 2 sets of 5 reps, volume is what will drain the CNS, just focus on strength, 2 days a week.. Also break out your relaxator, 15mins twice a day.. Look forward to your next update..
Kevin · October 2, 2021 at 1:32 AM
One question I have and forgive me if this is covered in other areas of your website and blog…. What has been the out-of-pocket cost of your treatment so far? Here in the US, because of our enormously expensive and entirely dysfunctional healthcare system, almost nothing is covered under insurance. I had to take out a loan to pay for the Vivos device and accompanying treatment. For example my insurance only covered 1/10th of the Vivos treatment as it was classified as “cosmetic”. I’m curious what your (financial) experience has been on your journey to address your apnea and CFS.
Graham Stoney · October 2, 2021 at 7:40 AM
Insurance seems to be a big issue in the U.S.; when I met Dr Singh in person, that’s what he asked me about while I was more focused on what I needed to do to get well. My DNA Appliance wasn’t covered by my Australian health insurance so I paid A$9k out of pocket. I appreciate that going into debt is a pain in the ass and it will be great when the appliance is approved properly by medical regulators and covered by insurance. I figure my income earning potential goes up significantly once my sleep apnea is cured, so it’s totally worth it to me. I spent tens of thousands on CFS treatments and mindfulness/emotion-based modalities before realising that I had a structural problem to address first, not to mention a couple of million in lost income. I’ve never tallied it all up to be honest; I just want to get well and get on with my life. Cheers, Graham
Kimberly · October 5, 2021 at 8:37 AM
My dentist’s price for Vivos treatment was $8000. I paid $2000. BCBS shield covered the rest. The appliance should be billed out to medical insurance as ‘Durable Medical Equipment (DME),’ which is the same category as crutches, using HCPCS oral appliance code “E0486 — oral device/appliance used to reduce upper airway collapsibility, adjustable or non-adjustable, custom facricated, includes fitting + adjustment.” Having a dental office successfully bill medical insurance is difficult!! A lot of offices don’t even try. I am a dentist myself and it was still a nightmare getting my appliance approved. I ultimately decided on the second of two dental offices that I checked out bc the ladder actually had experience executing medical claims.
Robert · November 13, 2021 at 10:55 AM
Hi Kimberly,
I have BCBS too and have been trying to pre approval before I start this. I know my provider does use the E0486 code to bill, but Blue Cross has told me several different opinions on how much, if any, may be covered. They’ve gone from saying it will be fully covered, to saying it will be considered out of network and I’ll have to meet my deductible first, to then saying it must be performed by an oral surgeon or it won’t be covered at all. Very frustrating. Do you have any tips? Did you need a referral from your doctor? Any insight you might have would be greatly appreciated.
Kevin · October 2, 2021 at 1:00 AM
Thanks for the update Graham.