Note: This post may contain statements that I no longer consider true.
See: The Vivos mRNA Appliance Didn't Improve My Obstructive Sleep Apnea.
Firstly, Happy New Year to everyone reading this. Let’s hope 2021 is way less shit than 2020 was. I’ve been using my Vivos mRNA Appliance for 3 months now, so here’s another update on my progress. The executive summary is that everything is gong fine and I feel slightly less drowsy during the day, but it’s taking time; which is what I always expected.
Subjectively I’d say I feel slightly more refreshed overall, and I no longer need an afternoon nap to get through the day. I’ve also been having a lot of emotionally-charged dreams pretty much every night, which suggests that I’m getting the deep R.E.M. sleep that my body needs to heal.
It’s also just over a year since I started CPAP therapy, which has reduced the severity of my day-time headaches and fatigue significantly. I still don’t wake up feeling really refreshed though and have a persistent mild headache all the time. I’ve read comments from some people on the Facebook Sleep Apnea Support Group whose daytime fatigue reduced dramatically by using CPAP, while others have been on it for years and still feel tired during the day. I am glad I’m pursuing oral expansion to treat my obstructive sleep apnea so that I can eventually get rid of my machine and sleep naturally but I’m resigned to the fact that expanding with the mRNA Appliance is going to take a long time, and I need to take it easy in the meantime.
I got through a full-time study load at university last semester with the help of some assignment extensions courtesy of my obstructive sleep apnea and chronic fatigue; but the process was very unpleasant due to the huge workload and I didn’t get the time to rest that I really needed. Now that it’s holiday time, I’m planning to take things really easy over the next month, and only take a couple of subjects next semester so I can recuperate better and structure my time around using the appliance optimally.
I’ve expanded the upper appliance a total of 3.3 mm both sideways and forwards, and the lower appliance 1.8 mm sideways, and advanced it 5 mm. Sideways expansion of the lower appliance has been restricted due to a number of painful impingements on my gums which needed to be resolved by my dentist removing acrylic from the site. That meant not expanding it until I could get an appointment and waiting for the inflammation to subside, during which time I didn’t wear it during the day. This gave more chance for the inflammation to heal so that I could wear it at night, but made the device quite tight and reduced the rate at which I could expand it.
The rate at which you can expand a DNA appliance definitely depends on how compliant you are at wearing it for the full 16 hours per day, and what your usage pattern is. I want the best result possible, so I’ve made this my highest priority.
Here’s what the appliance looks like now, compared to when I started:
My Vivos mRNA Appliance after 3 months use
What My Vivos mRNA Appliance looked like when I started
My usage has remained consistent, thanks to my usage tracking spreadsheet, and I’ve finally hit the 16 hours per day average usage that I was almost at last month. I’m also still using the facemask every night and as often as possible during the day, aiming for at least 12 hours per day; at the moment I’m averaging around 13 hours per day:
Three Months Vivos mRNA Appliance Usage
To get more immediate benefit from the mandibular advancement function of the mRNA Appliance I wound the advancers on the lower appliance forward 8 extra turns (2 mm) in one hit on 3rd December 2020, which is still comfortable for my temporomandibular joint. This doesn’t appear to have made much difference to the CPAP pressure I need; if anything it’s gone up slightly:
Three Months CPAP Pressure with Vivos mRNA Appliance
However, the good news is that the overall pressure trend this month was heading very slightly in the downwards direction, which is an improvement over last month:
Third Month CPAP Pressure with Vivos mRNA Appliance
There’s so much variability in the pressure readings from one night to the next that it’s hard to say whether these graphs are going to tell me anything useful about when I can stop using my CPAP machine. Time will tell; and if not, a sleep study midway through the year should give me a better idea. Not much else to report this month. As always, hit me up with any questions you have in the comments. I hope you’re sleeping well and staying safe.
45 Comments
lauren · January 30, 2021 at 8:49 AM
when are you going to rename your blog? you don’t honestly think cfs exists? i’m certain the majority of the cfs people hvae uars or osa just because they’re so damn underdiagnosed or take forever to get diagnosed. now that i think about it, if cfs exists it’s probably extremely rare… like you have bad genetics.
Graham Stoney · January 30, 2021 at 9:17 AM
I changed the title of my blog in 2019 when I discovered I had Obstructive Sleep Apnea. The domain name wasn’t the greatest choice in hindsight but it’s been 10 years and I’m not planning on changing it now. I believe that CFS exists. It took a long time for my OSA to be diagnosed because an overnight sleep oximetry test I had early on didn’t indicate a problem, and the many doctors I visited didn’t realise what was going on while poor sleep was destroying my health. I’d recommend that anyone with CFS or other unexplained symptoms have a polysomnograph to rule out OSA.
Anonyboy · January 24, 2021 at 4:32 PM
Hi Graham,
Just wanted to thank you for having this site running and keeping it updated. If you end up opting for MMA, the info here is comprehensive enough that I’d expect to head down that road myself. Selfishly hoping the DNA is a huge success for ya.
Graham Stoney · January 24, 2021 at 4:35 PM
Thanks! Me too.
Victoria · January 24, 2021 at 3:30 PM
Hi Graham – Thank you so much for sharing your experience and all the helpful research!! I’m thinking about getting the mRNA after researching non-surgical options for over a year, and it seems like mostly positive experiences from what I’ve read/watched so far.
One thing I’m concerned about is if folks have any issues after their treatment ends long term, like 1-5 years out. (Given the device is relatively new, I’m not even sure if there are people who have been post-treatment for 5-10 years?)… Have you found much research/testimonials/experiences from anyone?…I think I read in a different post you found a few post-treatment folks who were 1-2 years out, but not much detail beyond that (and I’m sorry if I missed it if you already shared!)
I’d love to know if people are happy with how their bite and jaw position feel afterward (that it’s even and stable) , are they really able to not wear the device anymore afterward? (I’d actually even be fine with having to wear the device once in a while forever, but just curious) …
I just joined the adult expansion FB group you linked (but haven’t been approved yet), so I’ll search in there for input too.
Thanks again!
Graham Stoney · January 24, 2021 at 3:46 PM
Hi Victoria,
I haven’t personally talked to anyone who has completed treatment with the appliance before and the cases I’m familiar with are largely from Dr Singh’s research papers. The DNA Appliance is not actually all that new since Dr Singh had a previous company attempting to commercialise it prior to Vivos, and it would be interesting to hear how their patients are doing for sure. I was resistant initially to the idea of wearing the appliance for life, but if it saves me from MMA surgery, it would be worth it. I understand the advancer mechanism gets removed at this point since it’s not required any more, so it would be a little more comfortable.
Cheers,
Graham
Victoria · January 24, 2021 at 4:06 PM
Thanks so much for the quick reply! Yes, totally agree — for me, wearing the device for life would stil be better than MMA. (Though that may not be the same case for others).
I’ll keep you posted if I run into anything, cheers!
G · January 23, 2021 at 4:53 PM
Wonderful website, very informative. Do you sleep more on your right on average? Was your sore gum on your right lower molar lingual side?
Graham Stoney · January 23, 2021 at 5:14 PM
I’m glad you’re finding it helpful G. I sleep on either side, and occasionally on my back. I used to sleep on my front a lot, but that’s impossible while wearing the facemask. My gums get sore wherever the acrylic from the appliance impinges on them, which has happened on both the upper and lower appliance. I take it back to my provider, he shaves a bit off, I wait for the inflammation to subside and I’m good to go again. Cheers, G2
KIM RIOUX · January 23, 2021 at 4:56 AM
Again, great post! Hey, I was wondering, it looks like the VIVOS has a wire extending into the soft palate. My understanding was that this helped to stimulate muscle tone in the soft palate. I always wondered how that didn’t stimulate a gag reflex. Is that why it is missing in the photo showing the appliances after three months of wear?
Graham Stoney · January 23, 2021 at 7:21 AM
Thanks Kim. I believe the intention behind the “pharyngeal extension” is to help hold soft tissues of the airway open during sleep, and it probably gives some immediate relief to patients who can tolerate it without gagging while their multi-month expansion is in progress. Unfortunately I was one of the 50% of people who can’t tolerate it and after a week of attempting to desensitise my gag reflex I gave up and snipped it off so I could start wearing the appliance. Cheers, Graham
Julie · January 21, 2021 at 12:15 AM
I found your site while trying to get my head around what all these different expanders are. We have two boys with tiny underdeveloped jaws, tongue ties breathing issues and teeth grinding issues. One has ADHD and i remember hearing him snoring when he was a tiny baby. It’s very difficult to know what to do… how safe these things are. Myofunctional therapy is also interesting. Your website is really wonderful. Though the information out there is still overwhelming.
Graham Stoney · January 21, 2021 at 6:25 AM
Hi Julie,
I get that it’s overwhelming when you first start looking at palate expansion options, but for children a simple Rapid Palate Expander expander is safe and effective because they’re still growing. Snoring in a baby is a tell-tale sign, and his ADHD is likely to be caused by not sleeping properly. Teeth grinding is an attempt to keep his airway open, so he likely has obstructive sleep apnea. If you find an orthodontist who specialises in airway and sleep breathing disorders they should be able to get the tongue ties released, do rapid palate expansion to cure the snoring, teeth grinding and ADHD, and refer you to a myofunctional therapist to correct their tongue posture. I’d also suggest changing their diet to minimise soft foods and adopting The Dental Diet. Your boys have a huge advantage that they are young and the problem can be corrected before adulthood. Good luck! If you’re anywhere near Mike Mew in the U.K., he’d be my go-to person for this.
Cheers,
Graham
G · January 23, 2021 at 5:01 PM
Graham, do you have a myofunctional therapist working with you? If so, is the therapist giving you a specific customized exercise programs to go with your mRNA use?
Graham Stoney · January 23, 2021 at 5:16 PM
I haven’t seen a myofunctional therapist myself, I just do these exercises twice a day. I’m doing them right now, and it’s really hard to count the cycles and type at the same time!!!
Julie · January 14, 2021 at 6:08 PM
Thanks so much for making this site. I live in Germany and know of someone with the AGGA. The woman has never looked back, it’s changed her life. She not only had improved breathing but her whole body feels better. Her son has one too.
Graham Stoney · January 14, 2021 at 6:49 PM
Thanks Julie. I’m really glad you’ve found it helpful and that AGGA has changed your friend’s life. I’m curious what your story is and how you came to find this site? Cheers, Graham
H · January 7, 2021 at 2:50 AM
Have you noticed any facial changes in your appearance for the better or worse?
Graham Stoney · January 7, 2021 at 9:21 AM
During a conversation about transgenderism a couple of days ago a new friend who has worked as a model/actress/stylist in the film industry told me: “You’re an attractive guy. You could totally make it as a woman.” Does that count?
KIM RIOUX · January 23, 2021 at 4:40 AM
Haha haha!!
Erik · January 3, 2021 at 4:12 PM
Happy New year Graham, it’s interesting following your progress, how are your your fatigue levels, post exertion malaise, brain fog etc.. Have those improved since embarking on your cpap and palate expansion??
Thanks…
Graham Stoney · January 3, 2021 at 5:51 PM
Thank you Erik, Happy New Year to you too! I feel a slow and steady improvement in my fatigue levels and brain fog, and I don’t really have post exertional malaise any more; although I’m still limiting my physical activity somewhat and I rarely go out at night. How are you doing?
Erik · January 4, 2021 at 3:59 PM
I’m doing well thanks, still plugging away, maintaining a routine, breathing exercises using the relaxator, walking, light resistance work. Progress is slow and steady.. Have you attempted to push yourself to see if you get malaise, if you don’t get malaise that’s a great sign..
John · January 2, 2021 at 5:11 AM
Wow your expansion rates are great. My dentist recommended going no faster than a turn (1/4mm expansion) per 2 weeks or 1/2mm / month. So I’m proceeding half as quickly as you. I tried turning 1 week early one time (eg1 turn per week like you) but the appliance felt very tight. I’m very worried about the teeth tipping vs moving outward even though I’m getting approx 16hrs of wear time per day. How would you rate the discomfort every week when you expand?
I have experienced improved nasal breathing in the last few months but I’m not sure if I can attribute it solely to the appliance. I’ve been getting allergy shots, doing nasal rinses (with Xlear Xylitol Saline Sinus Rinses), using Xlear Xylitol saline spray as needed and before bed, and taking allergy medicine. I highly recommend the Xylitol saline spray and rinses if you feel like your nose is clogged up. Another thing that I’ve noticed with my nasal breathing at night is that sleeping on my back makes it better. This goes against many recommendations which say to sleep on your side, but I noticed back sleeping recommended in the book “Shut up and sleep” which was the first place I read about palate expansion. It seems to be a valid recommendation at least in my case.
Unfortunately my night-time awakenings haven’t improved, I wake up consistently at 3am with racing thoughts and struggle getting back to sleep. I’m trying everything meditations, buteyko breathing, other breathing patterns, shoulder physical therapy (often wake up with sore shoulders) etc. I’m a light sleeper and believe I have UARS so I’m hoping over time the appliance helps with this.
Thanks for the update. Its great you share your experience with us and hopefully things get better over time.
Graham Stoney · January 2, 2021 at 10:16 AM
Hi John,
My appliance feels very tight when I first install it after each expansion and it freaks me out for a few minutes every time; but after that it settles down pretty quickly. For the next couple of days it feels tight when first installed, but after a while I barely notice it. By the time a week has gone by, it’s just snug. It’s never painful and I read in the Adult Expansion Facebook group that if it ever causes pain, that means you’re expanding too fast. I see no evidence of my teeth tipping, and keeping a check on that is what I paid a small fortune to the dentist for. I don’t see any downside in expanding too slowly with a DNA Appliance, other than the treatment possibly taking longer; but the end result probably doesn’t matter because I suspect it’s going to take time to stabilise anyway. I notice that when I don’t wear my lower appliance for a few days because it’s impinging on my gums, I have to wind it back to insert it but I suspect that would be unnecessary if I was expanding slower. I want to expand as fast as possible to liberate me from my CPAP machine but it’s important not to go too fast or you’ll put too much pressure on the bone and it will stop acting like a fluid and start resisting instead. That’s when things start hurting. My provider recommended I start at one turn per week, and he knows how much I want to get off CPAP.
I think the reason it’s easier to nasal breathe sleeping on the back is because it changes the way our brain regulates the size of the turbinates. I read something somewhere about how this was connected to a nerve in our side which tells the brain that there is pressure there, and it can even be fooled by things like walking with crutches. Unfortunately it does mean the tongue is more likely to fall backwards into the airway. I’ll add the book you mentioned to my reading list.
I’m wondering if your night-time awakenings could be psychological? Unresolved emotional trauma can leave us hypervigilant and this can affect sleep.
Thanks for the kind words, I hope you get the results you desire John.
Cheers,
Graham
G · January 23, 2021 at 5:14 PM
This is fascinating. Would elaborate on this comment? Also, when you remember where you read this let me know. This happens to be my interest area. Thank you. “I read something somewhere about how this was connected to a nerve in our side which tells the brain that there is pressure there, and it can even be fooled by things like walking with crutches”
Graham Stoney · January 23, 2021 at 5:27 PM
If you’re referring to the nerve regulating the size of the turbinates, the only other thing I recall is that if one nostril is stuffy and you lie on the opposite side it’ll unblock; usually at the expense of the nostril that was clear. I may have read/heard about it from Patrick McKeown (The Oxygen Advantage guy), who has a breathing exercise that also unblocks the nostrils.
g · January 23, 2021 at 6:15 PM
Thank you. I will get that book. The “nerve on our side” telling the brain- you mean the nerves on our skin on the arm, hip, leg? or nerves in the muscles, bones, joints on the side being pressed by sleeping on that side? “walking with crutches” reference sounds interesting but unable to understand what it means. Thank you. This is all very interesting.
Graham Stoney · January 23, 2021 at 8:25 PM
I don’t recall all the details but apparently there is a nerve on our side under the armpit which tells the brain which side we are lying on, and it can be confused by walking with crutches. That’s about all I remember. If I happen to come across the reference again, I’ll post it here.
G · January 24, 2021 at 3:39 PM
May I ask what kind of allergy medication you take John? Some medication will raise core temperature/or the perception of it and can induce mouth breathing and or changes in the sinus/turbinate. Medications ending with -amine can raise the temp. You can google the medication name and see if it is one of the meds that does that. Sleeping more on one side on average will eventually make the turbinate on that side more chronically engorged, and in some cases can also cause turbinate(bone) enlargement in addition to engorgement. If you have dental x-ray(panoramic), or cone beam CT, you will notices these changes. Then, the viscous cycle will continue with that side more vulnerable to inflammations/infections/allergies/nasal breathing. The more you feel so, the more you continue in that posture by relying heavily on the other nasal airway for breathing. You get stuck. Gravity, nasal cycle, allergies, medications, weather/air condiioins, food, reflux, UARS, limbic hypervigilence, etc will all compound on this problem.
G · January 24, 2021 at 5:36 PM
In the same logic as above. My observational research reveals that, as Graham indicated, when you are on the side, that side becomes a problematic in the turbinate. Gravity, hydrostatic pressure will engorge the turbinate on that side with the head now at equal level as the rest of body flooding the head, even when compounding factors are not added. So far, it has been hard to find research/books on this topic. So, for sure, I will read this book mentioned above. Certainly neurology and brain are highly involved in this, and I will continue to search. Venous drainage-wise, most literature indicate that blood in the turbinate drains into venous plexuses(xi) next to the nose and inside back of the cheek and into the brain, so anything that will make this drainage difficult, will make that turbinate congested on that side. But this seems to be only an imperfect partial answer. One additional factor that I hadn’t researched until recently is the lymphatic drainage. So, this is emerging to be the most contributory. The intra-nasal/turbinate area lymphatic drainage seems to be toward back and into oropharynx. So, sleeping on the back, lymphatic drainage is very enabled and turbinate seem to drain well and this gives a noticeable relief. However, as Graham cautioned, this will also allow the mandible and tongue base collapse into the oropharynx as the brain and the body go into stage 3 and REM. When it doesn’t reopen in due time, the hormones (epinephrine, norepinephrine, cortisol, etc) will awaken the brain and the body. The timing of the major awakening eluded me for a long time. The major waking event seems to cluster around 3-4AM. A couple of years ago, I persisted for an answer for this question from a GI doctor when I had 24 hrs acid reflux monitoring. And he led me into the role of histamine spike around 3-4AM. It seems in the end, it is combined effect of cumulative (adrenaline, cortisol) hormone effect, spike of histamine release culminating around 3-4. This seems to wake a person up and keep him/her wide awake. I will keep on searching.
John · January 25, 2021 at 1:39 AM
The medication is levocetirizine (zyrtec) so it may be adding to the problem. But the issue existed prior to using it. I think it relates to a number of things including psychological issues as Graham suggested. But it seems to have started when my son was born. He often woke up around 3am and I think that’s were it started. Also around 2 years ago it started to get worse when I shifted my wake time from 6am to 5:30 because of my work schedule. When I would awake in the middle of the night I would start worrying that I only had x amount of hours until I needed to get up and that would start a viscous cycle of anxiety.
Someone recently suggested switching to hydroxyzine because it has been prescribed off label for anxiety. It seems like any medication I take whether it be sleeping pills or antihistamines with drowsiness as a side affect, they do not help with 3am waking if I take them at bed time. I have no trouble (usually) falling asleep at 10-10:30pm but always wake up at the start of or during my first REM cycle. Last night I did not take any medication at bedtime, but woke up at 3am and took a Hydrozyzine and went back to sleep rather quickly. Don’t know if this was the placebo affect or if it had to do with the fact that I was skiing the entire day and exhausted / more relaxed.
Regarding the turbinates, if I sleep on my side I definitely notice one of my nostrils getting stuffed up and if I flip to my back they clear up within minutes. I have been monitoring my O2 levels with a pulse oximeter and typically never see my O2 levels drop lower than 94% whether I’m on my back or side. I realize there could be micro awakenings due to UARs so I’m scheduled to see a sleep specialist and hopefully get more accurate sleep testing to see whats going on. I’ve read that its “normal” for one nostril to get clogged and then clear up and then the other clog up and alternate back and forth as part of the body’s process of clearing up the sinuses. But I don’t know if people who don’t have a crowded jaw / maxilla have this problem and breathe clearly through both nostrils all of the time.
A word of caution on the book “shut up and sleep”. The writing style is very esoteric, non-clinical and in your face. I’m not sure people on this blog will gain much factually from it. But its where I first started my journey because of the topics he covered. The Dr who wrote it is from Stanford in CA so I believe he’s credible. I think the recommendation to sleep on your back was only to be taken if/when you take care of all other things (palatal expansion, tongue exercises, nasal breathing, etc).
Graham Stoney · January 25, 2021 at 6:32 AM
Hi John. I’m curious about the cause of your anxiety, as I’m aware in my own case that psychological stress can cause insomnia which complicates my sleep disorder. I’ve done a lot of research into the root causes of anxiety and also run an online coaching business helping men overcome anxiety by dealing with unconscious emotional trauma from childhood. For instance, here’s an article I recently published on The Healing Power of Emotion. I’d be interested in what you think about this, and if you’d like to have a chat about whether I might be able to help you with this part of the puzzle, please drop me a line. Cheers, Graham
G · January 26, 2021 at 6:06 PM
Yes, nasal cycling does happen. And it’s a thing. On average most sources have the duration at 1.5 hrs -2.5hrs. Some sources list a much longer duration. Theories abound as to how this occurs in the majority of humans but most seem to be evolutionary. However, in modern human societies, keeping smelling senses in tip-top shape to detect a predator during sleep may not be as relevant. Of course, this is just one theory. Nonetheless, this may have some effect and some may turn during sleep matching this cycle. From my observations, though, most people tend to sleep predominantly on one side or the other on average, the turbinate on one side becomes more engorged nightly. Then, the areas enter a vicious cycle. The more habitually engorged one side becomes, the more one relies on the other nostril for breathing. The cycle continues. Eventually, the engorged side becomes chronically congested, the body then, continues to choose the other nostril for breathing. This may explain your situation. Although you may think you switch sides, you may have your preferred side, and that side is chronically congested. This chronic congestion can keep the blood vessels chronically less efficient in draining on their own, making you rely on gravity for drainage, like going on your back to feel the relief. The congestion can cause hypertrophy of the turbinate-the bone larger on that side after some time. Adding to this, some medications (diphenhydramine for example can cause supine posture for drainage or mouth breathing for lowering temperature) can raise the core temp/or perception of it right in the sinuses, turbinates, and nasal airways in general. The congested site becomes more affected by this. To lower the temperature, the area will utilize venous plexus expansion causing pterygoid venous plexus, and cavernous venous sinus expansion/congestion. This will affect perceptions in the brain (cavernous venous sinus), and structures around the cranial base. If the nasal airway is squeezed, and narrow due to suboptimal development of the maxilla and midface, these deleterious effects will happen more reliably every night. Anything that adds difficulties to this compromised area will make sleep difficult. Just imagine what kind of brain structures are located in the cranial base? Could this explained limbic hyper-vigilance? Also, the limbic system is like a filter. Anything that gets communicated to high brain areas/cortical areas will be filtered through the limbic filter. The data inputs to this input can be physical/emotional trauma, pain/chronic pain, physiological changes, external environmental changes, etc. So, in your case, you have many elements that feed into the limbic system that may cause hypervigilance. Once you identify all of these elements (you listed some above), you can start to eliminate, dissociate, or reduce these specific inputs. As for medications, always consult with a medical provider that you trust. But also, google whether a medication tends to raise body temperature. If so, you can schedule the dosing time hours away from bedtime. From my personal experiences, anti-histamine medications at bedtime can induce sleep with drowsiness but give significantly poor quality of sleep (reasons explained above).
G · January 27, 2021 at 12:50 AM
Almost forgot! There is also the proverbial elephant in the room, ‘hypervigilance developing staying as an established chronic nightly fear of airway collapsing, not being able to breathe, or not being able to wake up (or wake up on time). Also, hypervigilance developing in response to alarming alerting-stress hormones accumulating as sleep progresses. From my observations, this type of waking up is very common. The average time when it occurs can be any time between 1:30 am to 4:30. The 4:30 sometimes but rarely can accompany a cardiac event.
Graham Stoney · January 27, 2021 at 8:51 AM
The hypervigillance thing is very interesting, because it’s also a side-effect of Complex-PTSD which I’ve also experienced and written about extensively on another site. Being around my parents frequent loud arguments as a kid was terrifying and traumatic for me. I was often kept awake as their screaming matches went late into the night in their bedroom which was right next to mine. I wanted to go in and tell them to shut the fuck up and let me get to sleep, but it was just too frightening for me as a child to do so. Growing up in a domestic violence situation was like walking on eggshells whenever my parents were around. Now as an adult I’m still being kept from having a decent night’s sleep as a consequence of their behaviour. It’s difficult for me to seperate the hypervigillance caused by the emotional abuse and neglect in my parent’s relationship from the hypervigillance caused by constant airway-induced arousals during sleep. I continue to seek treatment for both these factors because I think you have to cover all bases to fully heal the resulting hypervigilance which manifests for me as a feeling of being unsafe in my body, especially in bed at night and around other people.
Greg · January 2, 2021 at 5:05 AM
Hey Graham, thanks for the update! I still think you should get that inexpensive oximeter I wrote you about (with the through the night event reports – like a sleep study every night) so you can get even more enhanced reporting on progress, rather than only CPAP pressure readings 🙂
Graham Stoney · January 2, 2021 at 9:56 AM
Thanks Greg, you talked me into it. I’ve ordered a Contec CMS50H, which looks a little less bulky than the CMS50D+ you recommended due to having a built-in rechargeable battery.
Greg · January 2, 2021 at 10:11 AM
Ok cool… I just hope it has the same reporting capabilities. For reference my unit gives you 4 printable style reports after recording overnight and the software package it uses for this is named: “SpO2 Review”
Graham Stoney · January 2, 2021 at 10:23 AM
Thanks Greg. The CMS50H is on OSCAR’s list of supported pulse oximeters, so it should work.
Graham Stoney · January 24, 2021 at 7:12 AM
Hey Greg,
I got myself a Contec CMS50H and have been recording my nightly sessions and importing them into OSCAR alongside my CPAP data. So far it seems that my SPO2 level doesn’t drop below 93%, and my pulse rate sometimes increases when I have apneas. What else should I look for in the data?
Thanks,
Graham
Greg · January 24, 2021 at 8:33 AM
Hi Graham, I haven’t used Oscar before as I am using the proprietary software. But what I typically look at is an overall index number which measures events per hour for the session . Also If oxygen is not going below a certain number this could either be good or if you are feeling extra tired could also mean that the brain is successfully waking slightly to avoid oxygen getting too low. Do they have an index style number for the session recording? An index number improving over time could be a way to measure progress.
Graham Stoney · January 24, 2021 at 9:51 AM
Thanks Greg. OSCAR generates a number of statistics; I’ll do some research to work out what they mean. Cheers, Graham
Greg · January 25, 2021 at 2:04 AM
Ok, if not I can try to find a way to get you the app I have? I have my very first consult with a decent dentist in NYC area to discuss Vivos treatment on Monday (1st consult is $250). We would need to determine vivos eligibility etc by further scans/tests…. She has other treatments like Nightlace too. I would prefer anything non-invasive. Any tips for 1st consult? 🙂
Graham Stoney · January 25, 2021 at 7:07 AM
If you mean SPO2 Assistant, I have it; but it doesn’t run on my Mac where I use OSCAR. I’ll see if I can make sense of the OSCAR stats with the help of the ApneaBoard folks.
As far as tips for a Vivos consult, take your existing CBCT scans if you have any. Most of the diagnosis and treatment choices are based on the CBCT scan, so all you really need to do is sit back and let it happen. Good luck!